Social workers have the dual mandate of supporting and safeguarding children and adults as well as their families. However, at times, what a professional may consider as necessary support for a child or an older person, may not be considered as such by the user of service and/or their families. Furthermore, best interest of children has proved to be notoriously difficult to determine.
Therefore, in this week’s debate we explored the concept of support versus safeguarding as well as care versus control.
Please note tweets have been posted in the same order they appear in the time line. In other words you will need to go to the bottom of the posting and read the tweets from bottom up (in the same order they appear in the usual twitter stream). We have decided to do this in order to save time and have a quicker release of the debate summary.
We take this opportunity to Thank You all once again for your participation and excellent contributions to the discussion and look forward to seeing you next week Tuesday (14 February) at 20:00GMT/15:00ET when we discuss “Child Protection: A helpful or oppressive practice?”
Support vs. Safeguarding and Care vs. Control Debate Summary for 7 February 2012
@addicted2choco Sarah Clarke
@EricaRose30 Very useful tool!! I find it invaluable to enabling positve reflection #SWSCmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@swscmedia sorry could do the piece was bogged down with an emergency order that needed a court report #swscmedia
@mgoat73 Martin Webber
@SWSCmedia Thank you again for organising these weekly debates #swscmedia
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@ProfSocialWork @maxneill @Ermintrude2 @silyes23 Or both? It is not always an equal partnership as stat SW’s have legal powers#SWSCMedia
@clarehill3 clare hill
@ProfSocialWork agree, stimes a feeling of need 2 B ‘certain’ creeps in – worst still systems can discourage uncertainty!#swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
Reflection >>> Natural or Not? Inborn or Not? Debate rages on. Big thanks to #SWSCmedia get debate as usually.
@goingforgold201 debbie davies
@SWSCmedia #SWSCmedia will be joining this one
@addicted2choco Sarah Clarke
@SWSCmedia Thank-you, it has been another fascinating read through the different views, and so nice to talk social work issues.#SWSCmedia
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
#SWSCmedia @SWSCmedia Thank you or a fantastic debate. And to everyone who contributed – very enjoyable & informative.
@goingforgold201 debbie davies
#SWSCmedia a lot of todays troubles are parents to scared to take kids to docs with accidental falls then get blamed for doing it
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@Teen_Whisperer @lillieputian >>> defensive
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@Teen_Whisperer @lillieputian >>> defensive professions. This does not add up to being reflective #swscmedia
@essex_ehsc Ross Spencer
@lizzydripping @ProfSocialWork @twsw012 @lillieputian I think it may be different 4 us all. Some on auto, others not. @SWSCmedia#swscmedia
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
Thank you @SWSCmedia, and thank you colleagues for an excellent debate. #SWSCMedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@Teen_Whisperer @lillieputian You think about what happened not nessessarily reflection though #swscmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
Thank You once again everyone. The debate is now closed. see you next week to discuss #ProtectingOurChildren @SWSCmedia#SWSCmedia
@CompaneroDave David Whalley
@ProfSocialWork Reflection is the ideal, but IMO reflexivity and the ability to act in the moment and to any situation is v. impt#swscmedia
@lizzydripping ladybird ladybird
@ProfSocialWork @twsw012 @lillieputian disagree for some reflection is natural……..i am by nature reflective #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@maxneill @Ermintrude2 @nickberbiers @silyes23 well said#swscmedia
@Teen_Whisperer Teenage Whisperer
@lillieputian @ProfSocialWork I think you’ll find you reflect whether you intend to or not- on way to and from sessions etc.#SWSCMedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
I agree with reflection – vital important. But I disagree that we all do it naturally all of the time. #swscmedia
@hiljoyh Hil
@twsw012 @lillieputian @ProfSocialWork yes we do reflect but need support to anaylse and learn from it to improve practice#swscmedia
@clarehill3 clare hill
@SWSCmedia thanks for a gr8 debate! Still learning how to take part…promise I’ll remember the #SWSCmedia in future 
@maxneill max neill
@Ermintrude2 @ProfSocialWork @nickberbiers @silyes23#swscmedia. Who makes the decision? Are we exercising ‘power with’ or ‘power over’.
@twsw012 twsw
@ProfSocialWork @lillieputian i was assuming we are trained in reflection in our three year degrees! #SWSCmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@twsw012 @lillieputian >>> for many reasons, if it was so easy and natural why the same problems over & over again?#swscmedia
@hiljoyh Hil
@ProfSocialWork @sheepfoldcarer also skills from coaching – facilitating reflection #swscmedia
@hiljoyh Hil
@ProfSocialWork @sheepfoldcarer also skills from coaching – facilitating reflection #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@twsw012 @lillieputian disagree reflection is not a natural skill we need to learn it. I think what you say is problematic >>> #swscmedia
@hiljoyh Hil
@Ermintrude2 me 2 & my role is in l&d, mainly involves supporting sw and students with reflection which is my passion so lucky#swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@sheepfoldcarer I do think we can learn from counselling as profession in terms of reflection and thinking about cases#swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@sheepfoldcarer I do think we can learn from counselling as profession in terms of reflection and thinking about cases#swscmedia
@twsw012 twsw
@lillieputian @ProfSocialWork disagree – you are reflecting all the time, its more about forcing yourself to capture it #SWSCmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@sheepfoldcarer >>> that we think we are managing risk, because we have been taught this. #swscmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
Thank You Everyone for joining us again & sharing your views. Join us next week to talk about #ChildProtection @SWSCmedia#swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@sheepfoldcarer not knowing is seen as very negative in social work as we collect information it is through this >>> #swscmedia
@hiljoyh Hil
@ProfSocialWork sw’s need to be supported to face up to their fears, time given to explore their feelings and learn from them#swscmedia
@hiljoyh Hil
@ProfSocialWork sw’s need to be supported to face up to their fears, time given to explore their feelings and learn from them#swscmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
Don’t forget if you’re interested in #MentalHealth there’s a chat@MHchat tomorrow at 8pm GMT 3pm ET on Dual Diagnosis#SWSCmedia #MHchat
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
@goingforgold201 Really well said @SWSCmedia #SWSCmedia
@WhoseShoes Gill Phillips
@ProfSocialWork There seems to be a very exciting, enabling outcomes-focused approach in Monmouthshire #swscmedia
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
@lillieputian @ProfSocialWork Yes and write 1500 words essays on it too! @SWSCmedia #SWSCmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@sheepfoldcarer staying with the unknown is difficult and in SW can we really afford not knowing. #swscmedia
@hiljoyh Hil
@ProfSocialWork we must make time for reflection, practice without it is dangerous, not easy i know! #swscmedia
@444blackcat bc
#swscmedia promote autonomy of the professional
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@hiljoyh as I say, I’m very fortunate to get very good supervision beyond case management where deeper discussions encouraged#swscmedia
@goingforgold201 debbie davies
@ManishaMahen #SWSCmedia I don’t believe in power or control I believe in listening to opinions and both agree on the same conclusion
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@EricaRose30 agree but how do get those things in place#swscmedia
@lillieputian lillieputian
@ProfSocialWork as a student we are told to take at least 20 mins a day to reflect, which for a frontline SW is not realistic #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@EricaRose30 agree with all of that #swscmedia but how will things can and when will things change? Who will change it? #swscmedia
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@SWSCmedia We must embrace and not fear that to care is to protect and to protect is to care. They are the same thing. That is SW #SWSCMedia
@444blackcat bc
#swscmedia dispelling the myth of the “other” to show care with control u need to be able to emphasise in reality not just say it
@hiljoyh Hil
@Ermintrude2 regular supervision that is not all target orientated, need to allow time to explore feeling and values #swscmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
RT @Theresauno: @ProfSocialWork Totally agree! Reflection not easy for all even with time – guided n gr8 supervision a must!#swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
Reflection also takes time and we don’t have that. We react we are an emergency service most of the time! #swscmedia
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
Have care for the service user/carer and leave/empower them to have the control? @SWSCmedia #SWSCmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@ProfSocialWork I have excellent managers who really push us to constantly explore and reflect. #swscmedia
@essex_ehsc Ross Spencer
@ProfSocialWork Isn’t that where high quality supervision should come into play? @SWSCmedia #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
>>> through the fear? & how many managers can help us through the fear? #swscmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@ProfSocialWork supervision .. Good supervision! #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
How many times have I or my colleagues been scared or felt fear? It’s a common feeling for most CP SWers? #swscmedia How do U think >>
@Theresauno Tee Green
@ProfSocialWork Totally agree! Reflection not easy for all even with time – guided n gr8 supervision a must! #swscmedia
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
I agree with @hiljoyh cc @ProfSocialWork @SWSCmedia#SWSCmedia
@karenzgoda Karen Zgoda
If we are not being caring, what separates us from police officers? To what end do we direct our knowledge/values/processes?#swscmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@444blackcat @profsocialwork agree. I love having students around! #swscmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
Last 3 minutes… Any final views about difference or similarities beween care & control & how to apply that in practice? #swscmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
Last 3 minutes… Any final views about difference or similarities beween care & control & how to apply that in practice? #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
Being stuck & not knowing what to do in case being scared or having fear stops thinking. How do you reflect then? #swscmedia>>>
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@lizzydripping @profsocialwork exactly! It’s a process and needs learning #swscmedia
@mgoat73 Martin Webber
@ProfSocialWork @Ermintrude2 Good point. Critical reflection needs to involve experienced SWers to avoid rationalising actions#swscmedia
@444blackcat bc
@ProfSocialWork also good to have students shadowing asking why u did xyz which u do as routine helps u to reflect #swscmedia
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@ProfSocialWork Yes, that is very – disturbingly – true.#SWSCMedia
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
@ProfSocialWork Why always look at the mistakes all the time?@SWSCmedia #SWSCmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
So what is care and when does ‘control’ become ‘control’#swscmedia does our training really quip us for the reality of frontline?
@lizzydripping ladybird ladybird
@ProfSocialWork @Ermintrude2 well obviously you cant but thats why selfawareness and reflection and good supervision is key,#swscmedia
@hiljoyh Hil
@ProfSocialWork i work with sw students who all struggle with reflection, focus is always on what they did and not why, how etc#swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
Also what does care really mean, I think doing a home visit can be classified as care in a way but many will disagree #swscmedia
@Theresauno Tee Green
@ProfSocialWork Do you really have time to study it, learn the skills, apply it, case manage AND have a life?! #swscmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@sheepfoldcarer @profsocialwork @nickberbiers @silyes23 agree, good supervision and group supervision vital #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
So why are the mistakes always the same? Why is the balance between care and control not there? #swscmedia
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
Having a balance between working with your head and the heart@SWSCmedia #SWSCmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
RT @lizzydripping: @SWSCmedia stress! #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
If you look at serious case reviews the mistakes are usually always the same at least in children services #swscmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@ProfSocialWork @lizzydripping we do if we stop to look. We don’t if we think we don’t need to #swscmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@ProfSocialWork @lizzydripping we do if we stop to look. We don’t if we think we don’t need to #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
IMO we need guided reflection and clinical supervision otherwise we just keep making the same mistakes #swscmedia
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@SWSCmedia Well the most extreme and terrible example of getting that balance wrong in CYP #socialwork is a child’s death#SWSCMedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
Social Work talks about reflection but as a profession do we really understand it? And do we really know how to apply it? #swscmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
The last 8 minutes of the debate the question is what is the way forward to be caring and not controlling practitioners? #swscmedia
@lizzydripping ladybird ladybird
@SWSCmedia stress! #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@Ermintrude2 @lizzydripping do we always notice things about what we did? #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@Ermintrude2 @lizzydripping if u did not notice it then how can u reflect on it? #swscmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@444blackcat absolutely agree. I find it really really is essential#swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@Ermintrude2 @lizzydripping Yes but your own assumptions is very subjective maybe u did something u did not even notice#swscmedia >>
@hiljoyh Hil
@ProfSocialWork social work is about knowlegde, skills and values not the processes we use #swscmedia
@goingforgold201 debbie davies
@ProfSocialWork #SWSCmedia I agree but we do need more family support workers than social workers really as they do help a lot more
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
That is the diffrence between Social Care and Social Work!@SWSCmedia #SWSCmedia
@lizzydripping ladybird ladybird
@Ermintrude2 @profsocialwork yes definately, being reflective in this way is vitally important #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@sheepfoldcarer @NickBerbiers @silyes23 agree but do we get the support & what about when we don’t #swscmedia
@silyes23 Lyes
@ProfSocialWork that is significant battle I face with the children in care I work with. Empowering some1 who doesn’t want to be#SWSCMedia
@lillieputian lillieputian
@ProfSocialWork @Oscarbsw stop using words like ‘empowerment’ & ‘enabling’ when talking to service users, use common use language #swscmedia
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@ProfSocialWork Outcomes, outcomes, outcomes – ah yes, my favourite subject. It’s all about outcomes – it’s the whole point#SWSCMedia
@addicted2choco Sarah Clarke
@ManishaMahen @SWSCmedia That is exactly the dilemma of care and control, the power balances can shift within moments#SWSCmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
RT @essex_ehsc: @goingforgold201 Not seen first hand but I have heard of it happening #swscmedia @SWSCmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
RT @essex_ehsc: @goingforgold201 Not seen first hand but I have heard of it happening #swscmedia @SWSCmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
What are some of the practical and professional implications and consequences of these dichotomies between care & control?#swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@swfield @ProfSocialWorkIt thisi culture that is being created is this helping or hindering #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@swfield @ProfSocialWorkIt not impossible but what kind of culture is being created in frontline practice >>>> #swscmedia
@swfield UB SSW Field
Have to log off…great conversation! #swscmedia
@444blackcat bc
@lizzydripping #swscmedia yes its not always the case that Something Must Be Done
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@lizzydripping @profsocialwork reflecting for me is processing my own attitudes and assumptions and learning from my interactions#swscmedia
@silyes23 Lyes
@lizzydripping absolutely. Just awful. And the view is very much ‘not our responsibility’ which is awful #SWSCMedia
@twsw012 twsw
@ProfSocialWork it pretty close – but you have to have transparent process, otherwise not safe #SWSCmedia
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
@addicted2choco But need to be careful of being the power – is it the service user who should have more power? @SWSCmedia#SWSCmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@Oscarbsw yes expression is really important #swscmedia how do we express things so that they make sense to service users?
@lizzydripping ladybird ladybird
@ProfSocialWork its about the end game, its about peoples needs, dangerous to put our values onto others #swscmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
We give you a case example and can you tell us the reasons and differences involved? #swscmedia
@444blackcat bc
@Ermintrude2 #swscmedia importance of CPD training away from base allows time for reflection away from the daily fire fighting
@mgoat73 Martin Webber
@ManishaMahen @SWSCmedia Not just me – it’s the outcome of a research project I’m leading which is still in progress #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@Ermintrude2 @mgoat73 but what does reflection really mean and are social workers really reflecting or rationalising decisions?#swscmedia
@goingforgold201 debbie davies
#SWSCmedia just a general 1 ere has any sw actually took legal action on a ico and the judge has made a judgement that ya didn’t want
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@silyes23 would you like to say bit more about chronologies@swfield has asked #SWSCMedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
Maybe we should be more focused on outcome and less so regarding process of social work #swscmedia maybe this is the answer ??
@Oscarbsw Thabo Oscar Mafa
@ProfSocialWork it all depend on how one expresses it#swscmedia
@lizzydripping ladybird ladybird
@444blackcat agree with you, otherwise we are seen as paternalistic & patronising – u need empowering and i am superhero to do it #swscmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@mgoat73 without reflection our role becomes series of processes rather than a profession #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@lizzydripping different ways of thinking about the same thing#swscmedia but at the end what is the real outcome for someone’s life?
@mgoat73 Martin Webber
@ProfSocialWork Indeed. And we need to develop our identity, articulate clearly what we do and communicate it more effectively.#swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@lizzydripping who decides whether it is empowering? Perception needs to be thought of #swscmedia >>>
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@ManishaMahen @swscmedia assumed it 
#swscmedia
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@Lou15eb You need to use #SWSCMedia hashtag
@lizzydripping ladybird ladybird
i find it difficult when see adults who have children removed left to get on with it and manage the trauma and emotions, #swscmedia
@Theresauno Tee Green
@ProfSocialWork ..or have time but is v important when dealin with vulnerable ppl. #swscmedia
@swfield UB SSW Field
@NickBerbiers Sounds interesting…would like to hear more.#swscmedia
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
RT @silyes23 ’you have undertaken with a family and also the incidents that have occurred.’ #SWSCMedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
Can we ever get the balance right I don’t know. #swscmedia maybe ppl are just too different ???
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
@ProfSocialWork Agree even at ground level @SWSCmedia#SWSCmedia
@Theresauno Tee Green
@ProfSocialWork Just finishing my blog post on reflection n critical thinkin- will post later! #swscmedia Agree not all s/w find it easy
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
>> view of empowering can be different to yours. Who is right and who is wrong #swscmedia ??
@444blackcat bc
#swscmedia i say we do not empower anyone we explore show enable ppl to take control so they can empower themselves many paths to the end
@swfield UB SSW Field
@ProfSocialWorkIt is difficult in practice but not impossible.#swscmedia
Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@ManishaMahen @swscmedia great point. That’s where reflection helps too #swscmedia
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@silyes23 RT ‘ I find chronologies a great tool for reflection and case management. Makes u realise the work… #SWSCMedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
Just because you say you are empowering does not mean you are. You need to check it out with the service user #swscmedia but there >>
@Debd_DDTC Deb Drinkwater
#swscmedia - not necessarity SW in #protectingourchildren showed utmost care intervening at highest threshold. Use of Care AND Control
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
from a frontline perspective alot of these things are easy to talk about but difficult to do in practice #swscmedia
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@silyes23 You need to use the #SWSCMedia in your debate tweets
@Pynda0 Pinda
Ok #SWSCmedia I have to go to a meeting. !!
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
Risk involved in everything and i f you dont acknowledge risk, then you’re not doing your job properly @SWSCmedia #SWSCmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
We need to look at social work culture and a target driven work force#swscmedia
@lizzydripping ladybird ladybird
@ProfSocialWork you cannot empower someone, they do that themselves if you provide them wit the tools,danger of being paternal#swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
..loads of times it does not happen #swscmedia but sometimes social workers think they are doing it. & managers are very target orientated.
@mgoat73 Martin Webber
@ManishaMahen @SWSCmedia That’s because it’s work in progress and hasn’t been published yet! Great that it resonates though. #swscmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
RT @addicted2choco: Will our perception of empowerment be the same as the person we are trying to empower? #SWSCmedia@SWSCmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
RT @addicted2choco: Will our perception of empowerment be the same as the person we are trying to empower? #SWSCmedia@SWSCmedia
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@ProfSocialWork Though that said, managing risk for children can also assist them to feel empowered (and parents too) #SWSCMedia
@Pynda0 Pinda
@twsw012 there’s many variables in that equation #SWSCmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@ProfSocialWork @nickberbiers @silyes23 reflection is most essential in crises. Otherwise risk poor decisions that ruin lives#swscmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
So is the difference between care & control a question of risk involved? #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
and talking about these things loads of people talk about empowerment and reflection but does it really happen #swscmedia??
@goingforgold201 debbie davies
@ProfSocialWork #SWSCmedia @SWSCmedia I agree but most sw do tend to forget that part and focus solely on child
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
Sorry I know i’m late so missed loads but I think that there is a real difference between really being able to do these things #swscmedia
@swfield UB SSW Field
you empathize with them about their limited choices and partner with them around the choices they do have #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@Ermintrude2 @NickBerbiers @silyes23 … time social workers don’t always have too busy crisis management #swscmedia
@Oscarbsw Thabo Oscar Mafa
@ProfSocialWork agree #swscmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@lavinialady @swscmedia i refer back to my earlier questions ..’care to whom’ ‘care for whom’. What do we want/need to control#swscmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
RT @lizzydripping: @SWSCmedia Community Treatment Orders in my experience – control to offer care #swscmedia
@Pynda0 Pinda
Let’s talk client goals not if u refuse to participate here’s the ramifications… Different language different conversation#SWSCmedia
@addicted2choco Sarah Clarke
@ProfSocialWork It seems to be the case from following this debate. It seems more straightforward to safeguard children?#SWSCmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@Ermintrude2 @NickBerbiers @silyes23 but most social workers find reflection really difficult and reflection takes time #swscmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
Empowering Service Users is essential & fundamental. But, what does that mean in practice? How do you put words into actions?#swscmedia
@twsw012 twsw
@Pynda0 perception of ‘threat’ depends on SW relationship skills and language used #SWSCmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
How do you empower someone who does not want to be empowered #swscmedia ?
@swfield UB SSW Field
@ProfSocialWork we agree, child safety is first. Impt to engage family in order for change #swscmedia
@444blackcat bc
@ProfSocialWork #swscmedia a good case for having generic teams again enable focus on whole rather than parts without forgetting priorites
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
Empowerment is very difficult and i think we do more risk management than anything else #swscmedia
@lizzydripping ladybird ladybird
@SWSCmedia Community Treatment Orders in my experience – control to offer care #swscmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@NickBerbiers @silyes23 completely agree . Reflection is crucial. We must always explore our (and agency’s) motives #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
Big differences between adult and children’s social workers I think regarding how this is viewed #swscmedia what do others think?
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
You need to use #SWSCmedia hashtag @silyes23
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
RT @silyes23 ’I think supervision and reflection are vital to explore whether you are empowering ppl you work with’ #swscmedia
@Pynda0 Pinda
@twsw012 a threat = defensive. You will than be deesclating that situation #SWSCmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@goingforgold201 @SWSCmedia yes family needs to be seen as a whole #swscmedia but also need to keep child focused#swscmedia
@mgoat73 Martin Webber
@ManishaMahen @SWSCmedia Fantastic – that is the essence of the Connecting People Intervention model:martinwebber.net/2011/12/26/con… #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@twsw012 taking responsibility a big issue in Child Protection#swscmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@SWSCmedia doesn’t that depend on what the differences are? And what the risks/capacity/issues are ? #swscmedia
@goingforgold201 debbie davies
@SWSCmedia #SWSCmedia. I think helping the parents first will safeguard the child rather than just focusing on child
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
@SWSCmedia not really easy in my opinion #swscmedia difficult most of the time. Q of perception
@essex_ehsc Ross Spencer
@Theresauno @SWSCmedia That’s never an easy one#swscmedia
@lillieputian lillieputian
@Theresauno @SWSCmedia ask them what they’d prefer?#swscmedia
@twsw012 twsw
you can be empowered by being threatened with legal – it can be the kick up the a*** people need to take control of their life#SWSCmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
so many great tweets … #swscmedia … trying to catch up
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
Should be simple to resolve differences between users of services & social workers. #swscmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
Should be simple to resolve differences between users of services & social workers. #swscmedia
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
care and control really difficult in child protection #swscmediacompeting differences
@444blackcat bc
@mgoat73 told by tutor when i was doing SW training he was a very wise man it has stuck with me for yrs #swscmedia
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
We can ‘support’ parent neglecting child whilst being entirely straight about legally ‘protecting’ the child if progress not made#SWSCMedia
@Pynda0 Pinda
There’s function in dysfunction. #SWSCmedia what works and what doesn’t. Important to help build & rebuild with the client
@dannavalentine Danniella Valentine
@444blackcat Amazing! Very relevant also #swscmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
In light of #ProtectingOurChildren if care & control is only a Q of perspective then it seems simple to resolve differences?#SWSCmedia
@essex_ehsc Ross Spencer
@ProfSocialWork Welcome! @SWSCmedia #swscmedia
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
Empowerment is releasing the hidden potential in a SU/Carer, but you must do that within yourrself to do in others @SWSCmedia#SWSCmedia
@Theresauno Tee Green
@SWSCmedia One of the most basic probs is finding the most empowerin words to refer to the individual – S.U? Client?!#swscmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@lavinialady @mgoat73 @swscmedia same here #swscmedia(esp if dementia diagnosis which doesn’t = lack of capacity)
@ProfSocialWork From The Gut
sorry i’m late #swscmedia
@essex_ehsc Ross Spencer
RT @swfield: it’t the client’s definition of empowerment that matters ~ absolutely! #swscmedia @SWSCmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@Theresauno @mgoat73 @swscmedia exactly the point of my questions I ask them to myself in reflection #swscmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
RT @swfield: it’t the client’s definition of empowerment that matters#swscmedia
@mgoat73 Martin Webber
@444blackcat Fantastic! What a gem of wisdom. I’m being inspired by the responses to this discussion #swscmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@lavinialady @mgoat73 assumptions made re: capacity on the basis of age/diagnosis #swscmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@lavinialady @mgoat73 @swscmedia indeed. Capacity plays role but ‘unwise decisions’ protected. Can be hard to explain to fams#swscmedia
@swfield UB SSW Field
it’t the client’s definition of empowerment that matters #swscmedia
@Theresauno Tee Green
@Ermintrude2 @mgoat73 @swscmedia Hence the need for critical thinking and reflection! #swscmedia
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@SWSCmedia Clarity and honesty are the keystones to empowerment, I believe @silyes23 #SWSCMedia
@444blackcat bc
#swscmedia you do not empower u enable someone to empower themselves
@mgoat73 Martin Webber
@twsw012 Great example – exemplifies this whole discussion. Thank you so much! #swscmedia
@Theresauno Tee Green
It’s like diff between personalisation n adult safeguarding – risk enablement/reduction, user choice/central responsibility etc#SWSCmedia
@Pynda0 Pinda
@sunbubbles28 @swscmedia they have to have enough report with you to discuss there fears / hesitations/ reservations..#SWSCmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
@silyes23 But what is empowerment? how do you actually do that?#swscmedia @SWSCmedia
@mgoat73 Martin Webber
@tas74ann @clarehill3 @nickberbiers @swscmedia LOL! Tongue firmly in cheek I imagine….! #swscmedia
@Pynda0 Pinda
@sunbubbles28 @swscmedia if the client won’t discuss why their afraid…. It can make for a longer road to self determination#SWSCmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
RT @ManishaMahen: An example I’ve seen in placement is care without safeguarding knowledge. @SWSCmedia #SWSCmedia
@addicted2choco Sarah Clarke
Control should be used when all sources of care have been exhausted? #SWSCmedia
@swfield UB SSW Field
@SWSCmedia social workers are often in a position to protect children and they can lessen the intrusiveness conveying concern#swscmedia
@njsmyth Nancy J. Smyth
Off to an off-campus appointment…have a great rest of the debate! *waves goodbye* #swscmedia
@Debd_DDTC Deb Drinkwater
@SWSCmedia #swscmedia. Control would be when parent does not understand Why something is happening
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@mgoat73 The ‘spiral of amplification’ always impacts on#socialwork and referral numbers @Ermintrude2 @swscmedia#SWSCMedia
@Pynda0 Pinda
@sunbubbles28 @swscmedia I love when a client says their afraid bc my next ? Is what are you afraid of ? #SWSCmedia such a tough barrier
@Pynda0 Pinda
@sunbubbles28 @swscmedia I love when a client says their afraid bc my next ? Is what are you afraid of ? #SWSCmedia such a tough barrier
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
There is an abundance of literature & research on care & control but how do you actually distinguish between the 2 in practice?#swscmedia
@444blackcat bc
@Ermintrude2 #swscmedia agreed n also when they have a mental disorder
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@clarehill3 Yes, see what you mean. Yes, think there frequently is that negative facet to public policy @SWSCmedia @mgoat73#SWSCMedia
@addicted2choco Sarah Clarke
@addicted2choco @SWSCmedia Care was offered but they did not engage so control had to be used to protect them. #SWSCmedia
@444blackcat bc
@Pynda0 #swscmedia quite often GP police probation submisuse members of public calling not family
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
How will you distinguish between care and control & btwn safeguarding & support in your actual practice? #swscmedia@SWSCmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@444blackcat yes, wanting to die doesn’t necessarily indicate a mental illness #swscmedia
@Debd_DDTC Deb Drinkwater
#swscmedia #protectingourchildren this weeks SW demonstrated care & compassion even at highest threshold when sadly, baby was removed
@Pynda0 Pinda
@sunbubbles28 @swscmedia but the SW allowed the client to manipulate them. SW gives tools not fix it for them #SWSCmedia
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
In relation to carers I’ve met they have care for loved ones, but sometimes no control – leaving the SU dependent. @SWSCmedia#SWSCmedia
@444blackcat bc
#swscmedia often torn when intervening to prevent suicide by person who appears to have rational reasons
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
An example I’ve seen in placement is care without safeguarding knowledge. @SWSCmedia #SWSCmedia
@Pynda0 Pinda
@444blackcat in that case it’s the family calling #SWSCmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@mgoat73 @swscmedia and definitions of what mental illness might be.That changes with time. Homosexuality was classed as illness! #swscmedia
@addicted2choco Sarah Clarke
@SWSCmedia Having to use a guardianship order to protect a young person making too many unwise decisions #SWSCmedia
@njsmyth Nancy J. Smyth
The problem is that there can be competing safety needs within a family..pulling out one child can affect others… #swscmedia
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@SWSCmedia If you mean legal duty, then the imperative implication is that we have no choice but to do so #SWSCMedia
@444blackcat bc
@Pynda0 #swscmedia not always at least in mental health
@mgoat73 Martin Webber
@Ermintrude2 @swscmedia Indeed. Rise in child protection cases since Baby P doesn’t reflect a rise in incidence of child abuse#swscmedia
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
@mgoat73 @clarehill3 @NickBerbiers @SWSCmedia To add control is for the authouritative? #SWSCmedia
@Pynda0 Pinda
@sunbubbles28 @swscmedia fear is a difficult barrier to break.#SWSCmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
In your view & experience what are some examples of care vs control in practice? #swscmedia
@lillieputian lillieputian
@SocialWorkSmurf Oh dear 
see you soon #swscmedia
@essex_ehsc Ross Spencer
@Ermintrude2 Isn’t it both on some levels, but with professional limits? Working with youngsters, both come 2gether @SWSCmedia#swscmedia
@Pynda0 Pinda
We don’t randomly knock on doors to obtain clients. The doors we knock on are clients that reached out for help. #SWSCmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@mgoat73 @swscmedia sometimes we make decisions based on societal assumptions and protection. Ethical dilemmas #swscmedia
@mgoat73 Martin Webber
@clarehill3 @NickBerbiers @SWSCmedia I think this is true. Control is for the risky and care is for the worthy? A slippery slope?#swscmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
RT @ManishaMahen The lack of control of care for vulnerable people is where safeguarding takes place @SWSCmedia#SWSCmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
RT @Pynda0 @SWSCmedia I would say its in the way information is presented wither its interpreted as care vs control #SWSCmedia
@lavinialady Orpheus
#swscmedia the word ‘control’ could have a punitive connotation?
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@SWSCmedia Certainly, yes. The varying perspective of anyone: SU, SW, family, state, ad infinitum #SWSCMedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
If care and control as well as support & safeguarding are the same thing & only a question of perspective >> #swscmedia
@mgoat73 Martin Webber
@Ermintrude2 @swscmedia Tho our work may be with individs & fams, we are working with vulnerable pple on behalf of society#swscmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@SocialWorkSmurf @444blackcat I don’t have the answers but I ask myself these questions sometimes #swscmedia
@444blackcat bc
@SWSCmedia #swscmedia Yes but this can change over time i have been thanked by ppl i have detained a long time after after hating me at time
@swfield UB SSW Field
RT @Pynda0: @SWSCmedia I would say its in the way information is presented wither its interpreted as care vs control #swscmedia
@Pynda0 Pinda
A client will know if ur intentions is to help or take control over the situation. #SWSCmedia
@addicted2choco Sarah Clarke
Can safeguarding not be a method of enabling a person to take back control, they should be a part of the ‘protection plan’. #SWSCmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@JoWarner01 @swscmedia i think it’s useful to pick language apart as it is vested in assumptions #swscmedia
@mgoat73 Martin Webber
@Ermintrude2 @swscmedia I think it’s an important question for#socialwork to grapple with and have ownership over. #swscmedia(1/2)
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@clarehill3 Not sure, I understand. Please go further.. #SWSCMedia@SWSCmedia @mgoat73
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
The lack of control of care for vulnerable people is where safeguarding takes place @SWSCmedia #SWSCmedia
@essex_ehsc Ross Spencer
@SWSCmedia Thanks. To my mind, control is @ times a part of care. E.g. Prevention of a person taking unseen risks #swscmedia
@Pynda0 Pinda
@SWSCmedia I would say its in the way information is presented wither its interpreted as care vs control #SWSCmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
Can we then say that the same action may be considered as care or as control depending on individual perspective? #swscmedia@SWSCmedia
@lillieputian lillieputian
@SWSCmedia surely the person that is having care or control put upon them must feel that they are the same thing #swscmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@SocialWorkSmurf @444blackcat do we ‘care for’ or ‘care about’?#swscmedia
@mgoat73 Martin Webber
@NickBerbiers @SWSCmedia Good point. I think we should be able to articulate the inter-relationship between them (and own it)#swscmedia
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
Accessible language please @SWSCmedia #SWSCmedia for new students like me!
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@mgoat73 @swscmedia it was a Socratic question. I don’t have the answers but important to ask in reflection #swscmedia
@444blackcat bc
#swscmedia person lacking capacity been financially exploited sees it as price of friendship we safeguard to stop it Control or care
@mgoat73 Martin Webber
@Ermintrude2 @swscmedia Great question? Both is the quick answer, but it’s not often perceived in that way #swscmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
@essex_ehsc No problem we’re discussing the difference between care and control. is there a difference or are they the same thing#swscmedia
@lavinialady Orpheus
#swscmedia arrived late but I see interesting opinions
@mgoat73 Martin Webber
@SWSCmedia @NickBerbiers It makes for a nice social work essay title! #swscmedia
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@SWSCmedia @mgoat73 I’d say there is a legislative / policy dichotomy which is actually not a #socialwork practice dichotomy#SWSCMedia
@Pynda0 Pinda
@sunbubbles28 @swscmedia I would call that denial or protecting pride #SWSCmedia
@mgoat73 Martin Webber
@SWSCmedia They are integral to the process of care but require different approaches. Of course, they may not seem like ‘care’#swscmedia
@njsmyth Nancy J. Smyth
RT @addicted2choco: In my mind support is about everyday living and safeguarding is about protection of vulnerable people#swscmedia
@444blackcat bc
@ManishaMahen #swscmedia not always but could ur be seen as attempting to control the actions of others towards the person been safeguarded
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
@SWSCmedia #SWSCmedia Safeguarding has policies and is legally backed up, but control can be measured in any way…
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
@NickBerbiers @mgoat73 If they are the same why is there so much clamour about the dichotomy? #SWSCmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@SocialWorkSmurf yep pretty much #swscmedia
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@njsmyth Absolutely. It shifts over time, ideally through the efficacy of good partnership work with the service user. #SWSCMedia
@Oscarbsw Thabo Oscar Mafa
@ManishaMahen i think safegaurding is in the best interest of support @swscmedia #swscmedia
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
@444blackcat so safeguarding is all about control? @SWSCmedia#SWSCmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@444blackcat especially as can be on the basis of protection of others (unlike DoLs ) #swscmedia
@444blackcat bc
#swscmedia if support n safeguarding r the same thing can u say the same about care n control ppl detained under MHA may beg to differ
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@mgoat73 @SWSCmedia I agree, Martin – yet increasingly they seem to be percieved as different. But how can they be?!#SWSCMedia
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
@SWSCmedia #SWSCmedia I thought safeguarding is more superior to support
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@SocialWorkSmurf @swscmedia it can be with consent too..#swscmedia
@njsmyth Nancy J. Smyth
Ask client “how can we work together so this mandate isn’t needed anymore?” to transform control to support #swscmedia
@Ermintrude2 Ermintrude
@mgoat73 @swscmedia is it a matter of definitions too. What is ‘care’? Whom is it for? Individual or society? #swscmedia
@444blackcat bc
@SWSCmedia #swscmedia not always u can be supporting by using safeguarding in fact should be the case
@njsmyth Nancy J. Smyth
RT @NickBerbiers: Well Ill go radical straight off and say one cannot differentiate. They are all the same thing. #swscmedia
@mgoat73 Martin Webber
@NickBerbiers @SWSCmedia Agreed – nothing radical with that statement! #swscmedia
@mgoat73 Martin Webber
@SWSCmedia The two are not dichotomies. Neither are they on a continuum. Essentially they are describing the same thing#swscmedia
@Oscarbsw Thabo Oscar Mafa
@ManishaMahen you are highly welcomed #SWSCmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
Are safeguarding & support one and the same thing? or are they fundamentally different and in conflict? #SWSCmedia
@NickBerbiers Nick Berbiers
@SWSCmedia Well I’ll go radical straight off and say one cannot differentiate. They are all the same thing. #SWSCMedia
@444blackcat bc
#swscmedia in most cases it is by use of legal requirements which “Can” be done to a person while care n support can only be done with
@Pynda0 Pinda
Hey everyone at the #SWSCmedia !!!
@ManishaMahen Manisha Patel
@SWSCmedia #SWSCmedia Hello All, I’m Manisha 1st year#socialwork student
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
So our 1st question is how do you distinguish between Support & Safeguarding or between Care and control? #SWSCmedia@SWSCmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
This difference in perspectives & understanding can lead to serious source of difficulty in #socialwork interventions #SWSCmedia@SWSCmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
What professionals may consider as necessary support, may not feel the same for users of services & their families. @SWSCmedia#SWSCmedia
@SWSCmedia SWSCmedia
Good Evening Everyone & Welcome to our TwitterDebate on Support vs Safeguarding & Care vs Control @SWSCmedia#SWSCmedia
